American Scientist

This interview is part of episode 2 of Wired for This, a limited podcast series from American Scientist exploring the psychology of human behavior and neuroscience: what drives us forward, what holds us back, and how we navigate a world bursting with noise, contradiction, and complexity. This episode features an interview with Katy Milkman, James G. Dinan Professor at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, where she cofounded the Behavior Change for Good Initiative research center. She is also host of the behavioral economics podcast Choiceology, and author of the book How to Change (Penguin Random House, 2021). Milkman earned her PhD from Harvard University. This conversation with host Celia Ford has been edited for length and clarity. Link to the full podcast series on the American Scientist website.

When it comes to the challenge of changing behavior, is there something that people consistently get wrong?

One common misconception is that there is a list of universally applicable life hacks that science has developed that can help people achieve their goals. Usually, you need to consider what is specifically challenging you. Each of those different barriers requires a different solution.

Have you had to change your mind?

I had a misconception that we could find a solution that would help people build a habit over the course of a few months, then let go. We tested approaches, and every time, the habit would slowly fizzle. What it taught me was, we should stop thinking about having a “let-go” point. Thinking about behavior change as a chronic challenge, as opposed to a temporary one, is so important.

Why do temporal landmarks, such as the start of a new year, help us change?

We think about our lives not in a linear way, but like we’re characters in a chapter book. We think about time with respect to chapter breaks, which feel like big discontinuities in our life story. But there are also subchapter breaks, like a new year, that make us feel like there’s a break in our story. These moments disrupt the flow of our normal lives, which can lead us to set goals.

To what extent does that fresh-start effect help us form lasting habits?

The fresh-start effect is great at propelling you to do something that has long-term consequences and can make your life better. It’s for starting you on a path. But it’s not going to keep you on that path. You need the path you choose to be one that has its own strategies built in for keeping you successful.

What is the concept that you have researched of “temptation bundling”?

There’s some chore we know is good for us in the long run, but that we’re tempted to avoid. One strategy is to find something instantly gratifying that you can enjoy while you’re pursuing the chore. I realized that using TV as a lure to pull myself to the gym is a commitment device. We ran experiments to show that it is an effective strategy. And of course it can be applied to many things. You could save your favorite playlists or podcasts for when you’re folding laundry or making dinner. Whatever the thing is that feels dreaded, you can combine it with something tempting to overcome the challenge of present bias, where we overweight the instant gratification we’ll get from an activity and undervalue the long-term returns.